The Championship season begins this weekend with Blackburn Rovers kicking things off on Friday night.
It promises to be another campaign of twists and turns for Rovers and John Eustace. Here, we've compiled the predictions of every club reporter in the Championship and insight on their specific team.
Blackburn Rovers - Elliott Jackson, The Lancashire Telegraph
Promoted (top two): Leeds United, Luton Town
Play-offs (and winner): Burnley, Middlesbrough (winners), Sheffield United, Coventry City
Relegation: Watford, Oxford United, Plymouth Argyle
Surprise package: Sheffield Wednesday
How would you assess Rovers' work over the summer?
Blackburn's summer has been like London buses. They waited until July 30 to announce their first summer signing and have then proceeded to add three more last week. At the time of writing, Sam Szmodics is a Blackburn Rovers player but the expectation is that he will join Ipswich Town. That leaves a massive hole for Rovers to fill.
The investment from Venky's has been minimal despite the money recouped for Adam Wharton in January. With that in mind, it's hard to know exactly how much will be reinvested back in. John Eustace is a massive plus. He's popular amongst the players and is adaptable to suit the opposition. That means Rovers should be quite hard to beat, even if they lack the firepower or star quality to win regularly, with their current squad.
Where will they finish? 1
8th but it all depends on how the window finishes.
Bristol City - Dan Hargraves, Bristol Live
Promoted (top two): Leeds United, Burnley
Play-offs (and winner): Luton Town, Middlesbrough, Norwich City (winners), Sheffield United
Relegation: Oxford United, Plymouth Argyle, Portsmouth
Surprise package: Sheffield Wednesday
How would you assess the Robins' work over the summer?
Given that Bristol City actually did some of their business six months early by signing Max Bird, Josh Stokes and Adam Murphy in January and then returning them to Derby County and Aldershot Town on loan respectively for the remainder of the campaign, it feels as though there are more new arrivals than the actual amount of fresh faces that have come through the door of the HPC since the summer window opened.
Only three teams conceded fewer goals than City's 51 in the Championship last term but the Robins ranked joint-15th for goals scored with 53. It was clear where their work needed to be done this summer.
By signing the six-foot-four Fally Mayulu from Rapid Vienna and the pacey and powerful Sinclair Armstrong from QPR, Liam Manning now has an entirely fresh identity up front with a number of different profiles, something the City head coach was crying out for last season. Additionally, the arrival of winger Yu Hirakawa, initially on loan, from Japanese side Machida Zelvia reflects a change in strategy from the recruitment team in BS3 as their scouting network has expanded to the other side of the planet.
Another number 10 (*cough* Scott Twine *cough*) feels like the final piece of the jigsaw for the Robins and would make this a productive transfer window indeed. In terms of chances, 11th was a solid finish for Manning who came into the job in November and the question he now faces is whether can he be the long-awaited man to take this club into touching distance, or even to, the play-offs after a series of midtable finishes. Improvement on 11th is certainly possible but creeping into the top six appears too tough a task at this moment in time. If they're in the conversation of a push late in the campaign, I think most supporters will be pleased.
Where will they finish?
9th.
Burnley - Matt Scrafton, Burnley Express
Promoted (top two): Burnley, Leeds United
Play-offs (and winner): Luton Town, West Brom (winners), Sheffield United, Middlesbrough
Relegation: Millwall, Blackburn Rovers, Plymouth Argyle
Surprise package: Sheffield Wednesday
How would you assess the Clarets' work over the summer?
Burnley have such strength in depth for this level, that anything other than automatic promotion would be considered a disappointment. They've bolstered the areas that were in need of strengthening with a handful of astute signings but with 39 players still on their books, the majority of their work between now and the transfer deadline will surely consist of moving players on.
Where will they finish?
1st.
Cardiff City - Glen Williams, WalesOnline
Promoted (top two): Leeds United, Burnley
Play-offs (and winner): Norwich City (winners), Sheffield United, Sunderland, Middlesbrough
Relegation: Oxford United, Plymouth Argyle, Millwall
Surprise package: Portsmouth
How would you assess the Bluebirds' work over the summer?
It's been a steady summer of transfer business for Cardiff, who go into the season with the same manager with which they started the last one for the first time since they achieved promotion to the Premier League under Neil Warnock in 2017/18.
All hinges on goals. Cardiff struggle to score from open play but there have been signs of improvement in terms of style of play during pre-season. They have signed Wilfried Kanga on loan from Hertha BSC and he will carry the brunt of the goalscoring expectations, along with new boys Chris Willock and Anwar El Ghazi. If Aaron Ramsey can stay fit then I'd expect Cardiff to improve on their 12th-placed finish last year - although the bookmakers seem to have them as relegation fodder, bizarrely!
Where will they finish?
9th.
Coventry City - Andy Turner, Coventry Telegraph/CoventryLive
Promoted (top two): Burnley, Luton
Play-offs (and winner): West Brom, Coventry City (winners), Sheffield United, Leeds United
Relegation: Oxford United, Blackburn Rovers, Plymouth Argyle
Surprise package: Derby County
How would you assess the Sky Blues' work over the summer?
Although the Sky Blues lost another big player this summer in Callum O’Hare, the addition of Jack Rudoni from Huddersfield appears to have filled the void, while the arrival of winger Ephron Mason-Clark has brought a new-found balance and added an exciting attacking thrust to the side. A new goalkeeper in Sweden international Oliver Dovin has also instilled more confidence at the back. As we speak (July 31), City are still two or three new signings short but, as their impressive 3-0 pre-season win over Everton showed, Mark Robins’ men look a force to be reckoned with this season. Expect play-offs, minimum.
Where will they finish?
Promoted via play-offs
Derby County - Leigh Curtis, Derbyshire Live/Derby Telegraph
Promoted (top two): Burnley, Leeds United
Play-offs (and winner): Coventry City (winners), Norwich City, Luton Town, Sheffield United
Relegation: Plymouth Argyle, Oxford United, Portsmouth
Surprise package: Sheffield Wednesday
How would you assess the Rams' work over the summer?
It’s hard to assess where Derby are right now given there are still some crucial gaps in the squad to fill. They are in need of a number nine, a search that has been ongoing since last season and somebody who can be here for the long term. They still haven’t signed a goalkeeper and are waiting for the situation with Jacob Widell Zetterstrom to reach a conclusion. They are also in need of a number 10 and I still feel they could do with a centre-back with pace.
But they have recruited well in midfield. David Ozoh looks a class act but my main concern is goals and where they are going to come from. Jerry Yates was joint top scorer with Swansea last season but if he were to get injured then it would be a real issue plus he also misses the first three games through suspension. Making that transition from League One back to the Championship will be tough as it has been for a lot of teams. Survival has to be the aim.
Where will they finish?
20th.
Hull City - Barry Cooper - Hull Daily Mail/Hull Live
Promoted (top two): Burnley, Leeds United
Play-offs (and winner): Middlesbrough, Luton Town (winners), Coventry City, Sheffield United
Relegation: Derby County, Oxford United, Blackburn Rovers
Surprise package: Cardiff City
How would you assess City's work over the summer?
Suffice it to say, that this summer has been far from perfect at the MKM Stadium. After finishing seventh and missing out on the play-offs by three points last term, Liam Rosenior was sacked and the spine of that team has been ripped out. As many as 20 players have left and so far, the squad looks wafer-thin and lacking in quality and depth.
New boss Tim Walter is a bit of a maverick but it remains to be seen how his heart attack brand of football will take to the Championship. To say it's cavalier would be an understatement. It’s impossible to predict anything other than a season of struggle for City until we get to August 31 and we know how their squad will look because there is so much work to be done to get it anywhere near competitive because, at the moment, it looks worryingly short of where it needs to be. They will sign players and their record last summer and in January is largely positive, so fans will be hoping there are some rabbits pulled out of the hat like with Jaden Philogene and Fabio Carvalho because they do have previous.
Where will they finish?
15th - the huge caveat with that prediction is that until we know what City's squad looks like and the impact Tim Walter has on the Championship, it's almost impossible. If they recruit well, Walter gets the attacking players he wants and the system takes to the division, they could challenge again, but it's way too early to tell.
Leeds United - Beren Cross, LeedsLive
Promoted (top two): Leeds United, Burnley
Play-offs (and winner): Luton Town, Middlesbrough, Coventry City (winners), Sheffield United
Relegation: Blackburn Rovers, Derby County, Oxford United
Surprise package: Sheffield Wednesday
How would you assess Leeds' work over the summer?
Last season, Leeds put together one of the highest points tallies the Championship has seen without winning promotion. At the time of writing, Archie Gray, Glen Kamara and Crysencio Summerville (just about) were the only key players from that group to move on this summer.
With another month of the window to go, it is impossible to predict who else might go. As long as they replace Summerville and any other exits, they seem well-placed with the right squad and manager to challenge. Ipswich Town made a mockery of pre-season predictions last summer, but, on paper, the relegated trio do not look likely to dominate, keeping it open for the Whites to go again.
Where will they finish?
1st.
Luton Town - Mike Simmonds, Luton News
Promoted (top two): Luton Town, Burnley
Play-offs (and winner): Leeds United (winners), Sheffield United, Middlesbrough, Coventry City
Relegation: Plymouth Argyle, Oxford United, Portsmouth
Surprise package: Sheffield Wednesday
How would you assess the Hatters' work over the summer?
Luton fans should expect play-offs at the very minimum this season, but I'd set their sights even higher than that. They have lost two huge players in Ross Barkley and Sambi Lokonga, and have only brought in two so far, Shandon Baptiste and Reuell Walters, but if they can get all their injured players back in the opening month, then bar a top-class centre-back and midfielder, they don’t need an awful lot.
Manager Rob Edwards has challenged his players to win the title, and with the likes of Carlton Morris and Elijah Adebayo upfront, plus keeping hold of Alfie Doughty and Teden Mengi during the transfer window, then I don’t see why they can’t.
Where will they finish?
1st.
Middlesbrough - Craig Johns, Teesside Gazette/Teesside Live
Promoted (top two): Leeds United, Burnley
Play-offs (and winner): Middlesbrough (winners), Coventry City, Luton Town, Norwich City
Relegation: Oxford United, Sheffield Wednesday, Derby County
Surprise package: Coventry City - they're always there or there about in recent years but, having spent a lot of money over the last two years, they're still flying under the radar.
How would you assess Boro's work over the summer? Having ended last season in good form, Boro head into the new season full of belief. Their summer transfer work has been very focused this summer as they did so much last year and wished to have more continuation this time around. They're still a couple short, but managed to get their three signing to date done early and have crucially kept hold of their key players. This feels like their best opportunity for a long time.
Where will they finish?
Finishing third after a close battle for automatics, they will then win the play-offs and be promoted.
Millwall - Richard Cawley, South London Press
Promoted (top two): Burnley, Sheffield United
Play-offs (and winner): Leeds United, Luton Town, Coventry City, Middlesbrough
Relegation: Portsmouth, Oxford United, Watford
Surprise package: QPR
How would you assess the Lions' work over the summer?
Millwall were hugely impressive under Neil Harris last season as the club's all-time record goalscorer pulled them clear of trouble with form only bested by Ipswich Town. But so far their transfer activity has been slow and they look desperately in need of more frontline options to give them a creative spark. A big test for Notts County goal machine Macaulay Langstaff to jump up two divisions.
Where will they finish?
13th.
Norwich City - Paddy Davitt, Pinkun
Promoted (top two): Leeds United, Coventry City
Play-offs (and winner): Luton Town (winners), Middlesbrough, Sheffield United, Burnley
Relegation: Plymouth Argyle, QPR, Derby County
Surprise package: Bristol City
How would you assess the Canaries' work over the summer?
Major work in progress is underway following the appointment of 35-year-old Dane Johannes Hoff Thorup to replace David Wagner. Completely different style of play, and pre-season underlined that will take time for the existing squad to adapt. Plus now they have sold their best creative player in Gabby Sara, who joined Galatasaray, while the likes of Jon Rowe, Adam Idah and Josh Sargent are all expected to attract interest in the closing weeks of the window. Incomings wise, the only significant transfer at this stage is Panamanian centre back, Jose Cordoba, from Levski Sofia for a reported €3.5m fee. But he’s only played 15 minutes of pre-season after joining up late due to Copa America involvement, and now reporting some muscle issues. So expect a flurry of activity from the Canaries in the closing weeks. But not ideal when it overlaps with the start of the season.
Where will they finish?
12th. City now trying to go in a different direction, built on sustainability and the value of harnessing data to inform all areas of the club’s strategy. But that will require time and patience and probably a season of transition.
Oxford United - Liam Rice, Oxford Mail
Promoted (top two): Leeds United, Burnley
Play-offs (and winner): Middlesbrough (winners), Sheffield United, West Brom, Coventry City
Relegation: Derby County, Blackburn Rovers, Plymouth Argyle
Surprise package: Millwall. Ended last season on a high with five straight wins, and the addition of Macaulay Langstaff up front is an eye-catching one, having scored goals for fun at Notts County.
How would you assess the U's work over the summer?
It's going to be tough adjusting to the second tier after 25 years away, but some really good business in the window offers lots of optimism. With the exception of Josh Murphy, the team that got promoted has stuck together, and with Des Buckingham in charge, the U's have got a head coach who is a brilliant man-manager and astute tactician, as shown in the play-off final.
Where will they finish?
17th. It's going to be a battle coming up against some real heavyweights, but I hope (and expect) United to really ruffle some feathers this season.
Plymouth Argyle - Chris Errington, Plymouth Live
Promoted (top two): Leeds United, Luton Town
Play-offs (and winner): Burnley, Coventry City, Middlesbrough, Norwich City (winners)
Relegation: Blackburn Rovers, Derby County, Oxford United
Surprise package: QPR
How would you assess Argyle's work over the summer?
Argyle escaped relegation on the final day of 2023/24 with a 1-0 home win against Hull City. This is going to be another season where survival is the target. The appointment of Wayne Rooney as head coach during the summer has caused a lot of debate, both in Devon and Cornwall, but also across the wider football world given his struggles during a short stint with Birmingham City.
Rooney has won over a lot of Argyle fans with the way he has settled into life not just at Home Park but around the city of Plymouth too, but like any manager he will ultimately be judged on results - good or bad. Argyle's signings so far this summer have either been season-long loans (a market they have successfully used a lot recently) or free agents. Whether they keep one or both of arguably their two most prized assets - goalkeeper Michael Cooper and 2023/24 player of the year Morgan Whittaker - is likely to heavily impact their activity over the rest of the transfer window.
Where will they finish? 19th
Portsmouth - Neil Allen, Portsmouth News
Promoted (top two): Leeds United, Luton Town
Play-offs (and winner): Middlesbrough (winners), Sheffield United, Coventry City, Norwich City
Relegation: Oxford United, Plymouth Argyle, Stoke City
Surprise package: Portsmouth
How would you assess Pompey's work over the summer?
Since Pompey last occupied the Championship in 2011/12, the financial landscape of the league has changed beyond recognition. During those 12 years in exile, the Blues have been the big fish in a small pond, with one of the largest attendances and among the most high-profile clubs. Now they’re back - and inevitably no longer the big boys.
Indeed, Pompey possess one of the smallest playing budgets and are no longer one of the great attractions for players, creating another massive challenge in the campaign ahead for sporting director Rich Hughes and head coach John Mousinho. They oversaw a magnificent 2023-24, with the Blues crowned champions by five points and losing just five league games all season, one of which was when hungover after winning the title.
The core of that talented squad remain and, despite adding seven players, just Jordan Williams, Josh Murphy, loanee Sammy Silvera and number two keeper Jordan Archer have previous Championship experience. More recruitment is urgently required, particularly in the centre of midfield, while for the opener at Leeds, there are just two fit centre-halves, one of which - Ryley Towler - wasn’t a regular in League One.
Indeed the supporters are growing a little restless over the wait to introduce more additions, coupled with a final eight days of friendly action which saw a 4-0 loss to Wycombe, 1-1 draw at MK Dons and 2-0 defeat at Charlton. What’s more, Colby Bishop, their leading scorer over the last two years, is absent for the foreseeable future after being diagnosed with a heart issue.
Nonetheless, reigning League One Manager of the Year Mousinho enjoyed an outstanding first full campaign as a football boss and is viewed as a rising talent in the game, while Hughes’ calibre of recruitment during two years at Fratton Park has been remarkable.
Where will they finish?
20th.
Preston North End - George Hodgson, Lancashire Post
Promoted (top two): Leeds United, Burnley
Play-offs (and winner): Luton Town, Sheffield United (winners), Coventry City, Middlesbrough
Relegation: Millwall, Plymouth Argyle, Derby County
Surprise package: Bristol City
How would you assess North End's work over the summer?
I think PNE will have enough to stay clear of the drop zone, but it's hard - right now - to see any serious push beyond their 10th-place finish last season. North End's post-September form last campaign cannot be ignored, though they did have an improved spell after the turn of the year. It's a massive season for manager Ryan Lowe, who came under big pressure in 2023/24 and must convince sections of the fan base again. The signing of Iceland international midfielder Stefan Thordarson is an exciting one, while Sam Greenwood will be keen to make his mark on loan from Leeds United. PNE have some vital business still to do before the window shuts - two wing-backs and an addition in the heart of defence, ideally.
Where will they finish?
15th
QPR - Dan Evans, The South London Press
Promoted (top two): Burnley, Leeds United
Play-offs (and winner): Sheffield United, Coventry City (winners), Middlesbrough, West Brom
Relegation: Plymouth Argyle, Derby County, Oxford United
Surprise package: Millwall
How would you assess the R's work over the summer?
A strong end to last season under popular head coach Marti Cifuentes has got QPR fans believing that the club can avoid a relegation scrap for a third successive season. Rangers' defence was impressive last season after the Spaniard took charge, and has been reinforced by early additions in the window. The decision to replace goalkeeper Asmir Begovic with Frenchman Paul Nardi looks to be an upgrade if pre-season is anything to go by. However, further recruits are needed higher up the pitch, with more depth required in midfield and new signing Zan Celar crying out for more attacking support.
Where will they finish?
13th.
Sheffield Wednesday - Alex Miller, Sheffield Star
Promoted (top two): Burnley, Leeds United
Playoffs (and winner): Luton Town, Middlesbrough, Coventry City (winners), Sheffield Wednesday
Relegation: Blackburn Rovers, Derby County, Oxford United
Surprise package: Sheffield Wednesday
How would you assess the Owls' work over the summer?
It's been a busy summer and if pre-season is anything to go by the new boys will give the squad something extra. The chase-down for a goalscoring number nine remains and Ike Ugbo is the man they're intent on arrowing in on. There'll be more work done - Danny Röhl has spoken about the potential for Premier League loans and there are three or four positions that could still use strengthening. Given the way they performed since he arrived back in October, there's a cautious optimism that Wednesday can challenge up in the top half, with some players talking about a promotion push. There's a new style of play - if it all adds up, you never know.
Where will they finish?
I've gone for a bold, box office sneak-in to sixth, but anywhere in the top half would surely be a big success and a large step in the right direction. If Wednesday can complete their transfer push successfully and they can get some momentum going, Hillsborough will be a powerful place.
Sheffield United - Nathan Hemmingham, BBC Yorkshire
Promoted: Burnley, Leeds United
Play-offs: Luton Town, Sheffield United (winners), Norwich City, West Brom
Relegation: Plymouth Argyle, Oxford United, Stoke City
Surprise package: Portsmouth
How would you assess the Blades' work over the summer?
t’s not been a great summer at the time of publication. United are in need of a major rebuild following relegation and a number of players leaving. A takeover has stalled Chris Wilder’s recruitment plans meaning more players have left than arrived. That’s going to put the manager behind the eight-ball at the start of the season but expect a strong finish to the window as United look to catch up. United have the makings of a strong XI but their squad looks thin and more numbers are needed. If Wilder can get his targets in I expect a slow start to the season but United to establish themselves as strong contenders towards the end of the season.
Where will they finish?
I think automatic promotion may be beyond them due to the difficult summer and starting on -2 but I feel they are more than capable of a play-off finish if, and it’s a big if, Wilder can get the support he needs.
Stoke City - Pete Smith, The Sentinel/StokeonTrentLive
Promoted (top two): Burnley, Leeds United
Play-offs (and winner): Sheffield United, Coventry City (winners), Middlesbrough, Luton Town
Relegation: Oxford United, Plymouth Argyle, Blackburn Rovers
Surprise package: Danny Rohl worked wonders at Sheffield Wednesday last season and it'll be interesting if he can keep up that momentum over a full season. They were a real force when they played direct with aggression through the spring. There probably isn't much between fourth and 18th in this division and a united team that does the basics well and doesn't make many mistakes can go a long way.
How would you assess the Potters' work over the summer?
The season seems to hang on the quality of Stoke's late business. They want to keep a tighter squad - it's been knocking on 30 senior players for too much of the last six years - but they've had to be patient for big pieces of the jigsaw. They only scored 49 times last season and they need goals.
It was important to bring in a number one of their own, which they have with Viktor Johansson from Rotherham. Ben Gibson is a left-sided and experienced centre-back that they've missed and Eric Bocat looks an interesting recruit at attacking left-back from Belgium. Bae Junho and Million Manhoef are exciting forwards and a lot will depend on if they can change games consistently.
Where will they finish?
All being well with late business, this will be the year that Stoke finally break the cycle of bottom half finishes. Once you're in the top half, you're never far away from at least being able to dream.
Sunderland - Dominic Shaw, The Northern Echo
Promoted (top two): Leeds United, Middlesbrough
Playoffs (and winner): Coventry City (winners), Luton Town, Burnley, West Brom
Relegation: Oxford United, Millwall, Hull City
Surprise package: QPR
How would you assess the Black Cats' work over the summer? After the long-running uncertainty of who'll be head coach, there's now another unanswered question - will Sunderland manage to get a striker through the door? The three strikers on their books scored just two goals between them last season and the Black Cats desperately need more firepower. Without it, their hopes of a top six finish look slim. On the other hand, they've managed to keep Jack Clarke (so far), Jobe Bellingham and others, in-demand Chris Rigg has signed pro terms and Alan Browne looks like being a shrewd signing.
Where will they finish? 11th
Swansea City - Tom Coleman, Wales Online
Promoted (top two): Leeds United, Burnley
Playoffs (and winner): Sheffield United (winners), Luton Town, Middlesbrough, West Brom
Relegation: Oxford United, Plymouth Argyle, Blackburn Rovers
Surprise package: Portsmouth
How would you assess the Swans' work over the summer?
At the time of writing, Swansea have made four signings, with 15 players departing. It's resulted in a pretty thin squad ahead of the new season, and I expect there to be a lot more business before the window closes. Eom Ji-Sung and Goncalo Franco were the first two through the door, and have looked promising in pre-season, while Lawrence Vigouroux has come in to take the number one jersey. The most crucial signing, however, is Zan Vipotnik. The Slovenian number nine has signed on a free transfer following his release from Bordeaux and represented his country at Euro 2024. There are high hopes that he can bag the goals needed to propel Swansea up the table.
Where will they finish?
The starting XI isn't all that bad, but there's a worrying lack of depth in almost every area. I think midtable would be a good campaign for them. I'll go 12th.
Watford - Andrew French, Watford Observer
Promoted (top two): Leeds United, Burnley
Play-offs (and winner): Norwich City, Luton Town, Coventry City (winners), Middlesbrough
Relegation: Cardiff City, Derby County, Plymouth Argyle
Surprise package: QPR
How would you assess the Hornet's work over the summer?
retty limited. As I write, five new players have arrived but only one (Rocco Vata from Celtic) has been for a fee, and that was £230,000 compensation as he is under 21. Last season the squad looked thin and the team under-performed. Since then midfielder Ismael Kone has joined Marseille, and it’s looking increasingly unlikely that Colombian international Yaser Asprilla will stay. Head coach Tom Cleverley has said he still wants to strengthen all over the pitch. If he is allowed to get what he wants and needs, Watford should be comfortably mid-table. If he doesn’t, it could be a long and unpleasant slog.
Where will they finish?
16th.
West Brom - Joseph Chapman, Birmingham Mail
Promoted (top two): Burnley, Leeds United
Play-offs (and winner): Coventry City (winners), Middlesbrough, West Brom, Luton Town
Relegation: Plymouth Argyle, Blackburn Rovers, Oxford United
Surprise package: Sheffield Wednesday
How would you assess the Baggies' work over the summer?
At this very moment in time, Albion have work to do. As many as 18 players left the squad over the summer, including the four loanees, and so far they've signed five. They probably need half a dozen more, and those signings and the impact that they make will have a significant bearing, you'd imagine, on how Albion's campaign is to play out. With Carlos Corberan at the helm, though, Albion possess one of the sharpest managers in the division and he'll ensure that the Baggies are competitive in all environments, irrespective of personnel.
Where will they finish?
I imagine a similar season to last year, Albion as a squad at the time of writing are weaker but so is the Championship. With the appropriate additions, I see no reason why they can't finish fourth or fifth again.